Saint Joan of Arc (Jeanne la Pucelle): Difference between revisions
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Indeed, remove Joan of Arc from the moment, and things simply did not happen the way they did. That is, she was an unusually significant historical actor, who cannot be simply discarded with, "well, she believed it, that's all that matters." | Indeed, remove Joan of Arc from the moment, and things simply did not happen the way they did. That is, she was an unusually significant historical actor, who cannot be simply discarded with, "well, she believed it, that's all that matters." | ||
If Joan's visions were real, then we have perfectly explainable historical causation, including for her flustered recantation, called her "abjuration," of her Voices when threatened in public humiliation before the stake. Skeptical historians point to this moment as evidence that Joan had just made it all up, ignoring that only two weeks before this demeaning public ceremony, when threated with torture she had told the trial judges,<ref>Murray, p. 118</ref> <blockquote>Truly if you were to tear me limb from limb, and separate soul and body, I will tell you nothing more; and, if I were to say anything else, I should always afterwards declare that you made me say it by force. </blockquote>But so goes the theory that, fatigued and confused, Joan gave the hostile and abusive English-backed court what it wanted and made up stories of the Saints, whom, it (incorrectly) holds, she had not before mentioned.<ref>See [https://access.historyhit.com/videos/who-was-joan-of-arc Who was Joan of Arc?] Gone Medieval podcast (from Dan Snow's History Hit), a podcast interview with Oxford historian Hannah Skoda (min 44:30, accessed 1/15/2025). </ref> This ignores the fact that several days later, Joan recanted her abjuration, stating,<ref>Murray 137 (Note | If Joan's visions were real, then we have perfectly explainable historical causation, including for her flustered recantation, called her "abjuration," of her Voices when threatened in public humiliation before the stake. Skeptical historians point to this moment as evidence that Joan had just made it all up, ignoring that only two weeks before this demeaning public ceremony, when threated with torture she had told the trial judges,<ref>Murray, p. 118</ref> <blockquote>Truly if you were to tear me limb from limb, and separate soul and body, I will tell you nothing more; and, if I were to say anything else, I should always afterwards declare that you made me say it by force. </blockquote>But so goes the theory that, fatigued and confused, Joan gave the hostile and abusive English-backed court what it wanted and made up stories of the Saints, whom, it (incorrectly) holds, she had not before mentioned.<ref>See [https://access.historyhit.com/videos/who-was-joan-of-arc Who was Joan of Arc?] Gone Medieval podcast (from Dan Snow's History Hit), a podcast interview with Oxford historian Hannah Skoda (min 44:30, accessed 1/15/2025). </ref> This ignores the fact that several days later, Joan recanted her abjuration, stating,<ref>Murray 137 (Note this [https://archive.org/details/jeannedarcmaido00fragoog/page/n177/mode/2up?view=theater scan of the book here] is missing pages 138-139; [https://archive.org/details/jeannedarcmaido01fragoog/page/n176/mode/2up this one] and [https://archive.org/details/jeannedarcmaidof00joan/page/138/mode/2up?q=Baudricourt&view=theater this one] have it)) </ref><blockquote>They said to me: "God had sent me word by St. Catherine and St. Margaret of the great pity it is, this treason to which I have consented, to abjure and recant in order to save my life! I have damned myself to save my life!" </blockquote>The notary scribbled in the margin of the court register his agreement with the Saints, <ref>"Mortal response," as in inescapable, self-condemning. (Murray, p. 137)</ref><blockquote>''Responsio mortifera''</blockquote>Did she really make this up just to please the court? Or do not even cynics have limits? Joan did not make this up, for people do not die for a lie. Instead, she was lucid, calm, and firm,<ref>Muray, p 137</ref> | ||
<blockquote>"Do you believe that your Voices are Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret?"</blockquote><blockquote>"Yes, I believe it, and that they come from God."</blockquote>If, as, such theories hold, supporters and detractors of Joan were just using her for their convenience, and that the historical record itself reflects that self-interest and not the truth about Joan, why would Joan have said this? They didn't need anything else to to put her to death, so this report actually serves against the interest of the Rouen court, which would now fully act as instruments of a martyrdom, duly recorded in Latin and preserved for us in history. | <blockquote>"Do you believe that your Voices are Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret?"</blockquote><blockquote>"Yes, I believe it, and that they come from God."</blockquote>If, as, such theories hold, supporters and detractors of Joan were just using her for their convenience, and that the historical record itself reflects that self-interest and not the truth about Joan, why would Joan have said this? They didn't need anything else to to put her to death, so this report actually serves against the interest of the Rouen court, which would now fully act as instruments of a martyrdom, duly recorded in Latin and preserved for us in history. | ||